Rogue PvP specs

Okay luth you wanted me to critique a build of yours but for some reason you haven't posted it yet. I'll post the specs I'd toy around with instead then

Subt Daggers

Notes: Hemo sucks with daggers and I'll be BSing anyways, which is why it isn't taken. I'm a bit in doubt about Honor Amongst Thieves. The description says "anyone in your group", which leads me to conclude that it includes oneself. This means that this talent gives Seal Fate a good clean kick in the nuts. Granted, it's deeper in the tree and it's on a one sec cooldown, but I still think it'll be superior. One thing that needs to be tested as well is if there's a proximity check on the criting group member and if so, then how near does he/she need to be? If the proximity check or another mechanic of the talent lowers it's viability I'm gonna go with this spec instead. Taking 2 points from Relentless strikes and 3 points from Honor Amongst Thievel to max out Master of Subtlety and Filthy Tricks. The short CD on Vanish and Preperation synergize well with Master of Subtlety giving Vanishes even more offensive uses. I imagine this spec (or a variation) to be the strongest pvp spec atm

Combat Maces/Swords

Notes: I think this is a very interesting build. It has burst on demand through AR and Killing Spree (If you can get a target alone). It has 25% bonus dmg to sinister strike and an absolutely CRAZY energy regen (I imagine xD ) because of Relentless Strikes, Vitality and Combat Potency. Your melee counters lie in Riposte, the new disarm ability and 2min evasions. Your caster counters lie in 2min imp sprints along with Killing Spree (to a certain degree) for mobility. In addition you have interrupts in the form of Fan of Knives and Deadly Throw. And ofc there's the daze which may even be a substitute for crippling poison, as it can't be dispelled. (As I write, I like this build more and more xD )

Mutilate or Mutilate

Notes: Mutilate still has huge burst I assume, but wound not being stacked anymore really nerfed the spec (as opposed to Subt and Combat who benefited from it) The 51pointer in Assassination is situational at best in pvp so i simply skipped it in both specs. Other than that there's not much to say. 1st build offers some MEAN Ruptures where the 2nd build offers more burst. Go for what you like, but imo assassination is a PvE-tree now.

For non-dagger subtlety specs Hemo/Brew specs look interesting I'm not gonna try em myself though, but if anyone wants a heads up on what I'm talking about please let me know.

So now you get to critique my builds. I initially specced for subt but I'm definately gonna try out the combat spec

Edit: Another Mutilate build. I'm a bit happier with this one actually. The idea with deadly brew in regards to mutilate is of course to cover your wound and crippling poison with a stack of deadly poison.

Looking good Drac, i was thinking of something like this;
(btw! your specs are level 70, mine are for 80)

Might be tinkered with a bit :p

I mean come on. DWS is now in the bottom of the Combat tree and it gives a great boost in DPS. it would be blasphemy not to get it. The 2 points in Filthy Tricks aren't usually useful in Arena so i might switch them over to Honor amonst thieves, if this indeed works for your own criticals. In that case ill steal the 1 point from lethality to fill HAT up. Also, with vigor so high up in the Assassinaton tree, and seeing the point isnt really better spent - it's madness not to go for the 10 extra energy.

My Build - Should Honor Among Thieves apply to myself too

EDIT:

I just respecced and i can tell you that Honor Among Thieves DOES proc of your own ability crits, Just not auto swing crits.
It even procs off Deadly Throw.

It goes without saying i choose spec 2

Honor among thieves is insane... A rogue placed in a melee group will get 1 CP each sec basically. Nasty stuff

Vessa wrote:

Honor among thieves is insane... A rogue placed in a melee group will get 1 CP each sec basically. Nasty stuff

But it smells like a PvE talent?

It is insane and it does smell like a PvE talent. On top of that I'd like to add that according to some sources this build is currently owning rogue PvE dps, due to HaT being bugged in the sense that the one second CD doesn't work It'll get fixed no doubt.

Xathrina wrote:

Vessa wrote:

Honor among thieves is insane... A rogue placed in a melee group will get 1 CP each sec basically. Nasty stuff

But it smells like a PvE talent?

Getting 2 CP for each crit instead of one CP, even crits that you yourself didnt do? Sign me up.

Modified, going for http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0LZ0xZebbbhGzbqzAfot now

Luthiën wrote:

Looking good Drac, i was thinking of something like this;
(btw! your specs are level 70, mine are for 80)

Might be tinkered with a bit :p

I mean come on. DWS is now in the bottom of the Combat tree and it gives a great boost in DPS. it would be blasphemy not to get it. The 2 points in Filthy Tricks aren't usually useful in Arena so i might switch them over to Honor amonst thieves, if this indeed works for your own criticals. In that case ill steal the 1 point from lethality to fill HAT up. Also, with vigor so high up in the Assassinaton tree, and seeing the point isnt really better spent - it's madness not to go for the 10 extra energy.

My Build - Should Honor Among Thieves apply to myself too

EDIT:

I just respecced and i can tell you that Honor Among Thieves DOES proc of your own ability crits, Just not auto swing crits.
It even procs off Deadly Throw.

It goes without saying i choose spec 2

I'd alter your spec to this probably.
The things I've left out:
-Waylay: Aren't you running with crippling anyway and you haven't taken imp ambush. Besides you probably wont be ambushing anything other that cloth when not shadowdancing.
-Vigor: Good for initial burst but you almost never pool energy in pvp - ditch it.
-Ruthlessness: No doubt a good talent for PvE and PvP, but I think there are better talents in sub for burst. Ruthlessness really only shines in the long run.
-One point from camouflage: Needed elsewhere. Camouflage is nice, but not gamebreaking.

What I've added:
-Heightened senses: Stealth detection is great as a rogue as you no doubt know. Furthermore, I think that the 4% extra miss on ranged and spells will more than make up for the attack speed reduction lost when leaving waylay out.
-Filthy Tricks: Distract is situational. Tricks of the Trade gets added in wotlk as a lvl 75 ability. It transfers all threat from you to the target of the ability for 6 secs and increases his dmg by 15% in that period. Pretty neat for some extra burst when you're teaming up with people. Prep is great. You love it and i know it. Furthermore with 2 min vanish and 5 min prep you'll most likely have 2-3 openers from stealth per fight which procs....
-Master of subtlety: Synergizes greatly with low vanish and prep CD.

Basicly what I've done is remove the some RNG-abilities (Read: Random number generator, i.e. based on chance) and some less needed ones, and replaced them with things that you yourself control. It's a matter of taste of course but I like having the outcome of a battle rely more on my skills as a player than on chance =)

different pvp ideas for luth:

Hemo/Brew - no daggers (36/0/35)

HARP - no daggers ( 6/41/24)

Muti - Daggorzzz ( 41/5/25)

BS/ShD - Daggorzz (20/0/51)

Combat PvP (19/52/0)

Keep in mind that these specs were made under the influence of alcohol and that we should discus them tomorrow =) The builds i see as the most potential ones atm is the Muti and the BS/ShD builds. Remember that backstab "replaces" hemo, so that you use hemo when there's no debuff on your target and backstab if there is. Hemo/Brew and HARP are worthy contestants as well, but combat is lacking imo. Lets talk tomorrow. I'm tired.

Sleep well

Edit: Small variations of the builds are ofc alright. That's all associated with taste.